Loopy
26-03-2007, 10:31 PM
So you're winch has stopped working pulling yet another Landrover out of a hole with your Pajero eh ?
Maybe your Discovery needs it's winch so often it should have it's own winch spares box
Or everytime you go greenlaning it seems your winch needs a hammer to get going........
Kidding folks, kidding......... (A bit :wink: )
This is the mechanical DIY winch repair thread, for the electrical part click here > http://www.plcuk.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t= ... highlight= (http://www.plcuk.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=8182&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=)
There's no mystery about fixing, servicing or even overhauling a typical winch, and with only a few differences between the cheapest and most expensive ones the same basic rules and methods apply.
Depending on make, model and country of origin there may be some small differences in how things screw together,
"Obviously" some are metric and use metric bearings / tools, others are the long forgotten Imperial or AF and these days not many people have the tools.
Don't treat this guide as step by step instructions, unless I happen to have stripped an identical winch you need to use your head, take pictures, draw diagrams but most importantly take your time !
Hopefully, as and when they crop up I'll cover each different type, there aren't that many and the main differences are in the braking systems
Anyway, here goes.........
Click on pics for full size.
First, the strip down.......
First job, check the motor.
It's where about 50% of problems are anyway. The other 49% are solenoid related unless you have an Allbright waterproof solenoid pack.
(The missing 1% are gearbox problems, usually along with a burnt out motor...........)
First, check your meter reading when it's dead shorted.
http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/1135/1000562ph9.th.jpg (http://img118.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000562ph9.jpg)
Now check between F2 and A
http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/8771/1000564xm1.th.jpg (http://img503.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000564xm1.jpg)
Between F1 and A
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/8941/1000565dg3.th.jpg (http://img504.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000565dg3.jpg)
Between F1 and F2
http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/6983/1000563wb5.th.jpg (http://img159.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000563wb5.jpg)
And finally between A and the motor body
http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/6346/1000566uz9.th.jpg (http://img251.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000566uz9.jpg)
Well, going by these readings it’s healthy as far as this test goes, Just as well since this is actually a brand new motor……….
Presuming you didn’t get these sort of readings, or you’re just servicing it then it’s time to get the spanners out.
There are a couple of different motor types, a two bolt and a two bolt plus electrical terminal.
Either way, undo the two main bolts completely, but don’t remove them and if you’ve got the third terminal, carefully undo the nut and remove the rubber/steel washer.
Be careful, you DON’T want the centre of this one to turn as you undo the nut.
Once undone (but without removing the bolts) remove the end cap.
It’s just bearing friction / silicone sealant / corrosion holding it on now.
Give it a good tap all around with a soft hammer and maybe carefully pry it apart with a screwdriver. Take your time and do it evenly or it’ll start to move then jam solid.
If this happens just tap it back on and start again.
Cheap winch motor; (Also, note crinkle cut pre-load washer location)
http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/491/1000530si2.th.jpg (http://img67.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000530si2.jpg)
Expensive winch motor. Note the sealing O-ring. (Crinkle washer not shown)
http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/2931/1000569bq4.th.jpg (http://img131.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000569bq4.jpg)
Once the end cap’s off, this is what you’ll be faced with (or very similar)
Cheap winch, no sealing O-ring obviously, just look at the water damage.
Actually, this is a motor in very good condition, this winch actually has a gearbox problem.
Usually you’ll be looking at a right mess, black gooey dust, rust and furry corrosion.
Using “motor cleaner” or “electrical contact cleaner” aerosol and a paintbrush / toothbrush clean it up until it looks like this one.
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/1310/1000531yb0.th.jpg (http://img407.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000531yb0.jpg)
Now if you’re doing a proper job, you need to remove the brush holder, easiest way is to slide the motor case off leaving the armature stuck in the winch.
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/8915/1000534jk8.th.jpg (http://img378.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000534jk8.jpg)
Then remove the brush holder from the case, typically it’s held in with 3 phillips screws from the outside of the motor and a main terminal or the end cap and a main terminal.
Either way, remove the retaining screws AND the main terminal nut then withdraw the terminal from the casing noting the order of the insulation washers.
http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/8503/1000543pj9.th.jpg (http://img127.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000543pj9.jpg)
Cheap motor shown above, note the very poor connection between terminal and brush connecting braid,
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/8061/1000545vk2.th.jpg (http://img339.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000545vk2.jpg)
It’s lead to overheating of the terminal and the failure of the internal insulation washer, this can also be caused by water.
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/9974/1000544xo0.th.jpg (http://img120.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000544xo0.jpg)
Now carefully pull back the springs and remove the brushes from their holders.
(A three handed job, pull back spring, guide the braid while getting the brush out)
Hopefully you’re now faced with this;
Note the even wear on the brush face (facing the camera) and lack of melted or chipped edges, not great but not bad either.
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/6798/1000546yu3.th.jpg (http://img69.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000546yu3.jpg)
Or in the case of an expensive motor, the brushes will be out by now, they’re removed by going in, not out.
Ever wondered where the price difference came from ?
Well, here’s part of it;
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/9492/1000568ga5.th.jpg (http://img444.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000568ga5.jpg)
If you’re doing this job properly you’ll need to remove the armature to get at the other bearing, it’s not going to just pull out….
If you’re just giving the motor a once over, skip ahead to the motor re-build section.
First remove the straining bars;
http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/463/1000538zy3.th.jpg (http://img122.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000538zy3.jpg)
The motor side drum housing should now pull off the drum.
Be careful here, you’ll probably bring the brake out with it (brake in drum models) and you’ll want to take a picture before it falls apart completely
Once off, remove the brake assembly from the armature, it should just slide off a spline. Note any adaptors, spring directions, small rollers etc
It makes life easier later
http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/9237/1000539cs0.th.jpg (http://img122.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000539cs0.jpg)
With the brake assembly removed, remove any drum seals / drum bushes, noting their order and any locating lugs in the bushes
http://img484.imageshack.us/img484/9355/1000540js6.th.jpg (http://img484.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000540js6.jpg)
http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/1865/1000558ib1.th.jpg (http://img108.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000558ib1.jpg)
To remove the armature completely you’re going to need some blocks of wood and preferably a 2lb copper faced hammer.
(In an ideal world you need packing blocks and a press, this isn’t the ideal world)
Life’s going to be difficult without at least a copper hammer, but whatever you do don’t be tempted to simply use a normal hammer on the end of the armature, even using a drift you’ll mushroom the end enough to render the armature scrap………….
More pics on their way……………..
Now strip the gearbox end……. (Brake in drum models)
Remove the gearbox endcap screws http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/426/1000548ul8.th.jpg (http://img384.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000548ul8.jpg)
and give the endplate a tap with a hammer,
http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/5740/1000549cz7.th.jpg (http://img118.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000549cz7.jpg)
Yikes, this is called emulsified grease, it’s seen a fair bit of water in its time…….
Now is a good time to steal the oldest bath towel in the house, they make great rags for grease and by the time you’re finished the evidence of theft will be unrecognisable.
Now slide the first gear cluster out, note which way around it goes.
http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/6776/1000550ar1.th.jpg (http://img338.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000550ar1.jpg)
Don’t miss this little one hiding in the middle.
http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/728/1000552he9.th.jpg (http://img79.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000552he9.jpg)
Now remove the next gear cluster, again, note its direction.
http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/2153/1000553vz4.th.jpg (http://img119.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000553vz4.jpg)
Depending on the winch, you may need to remove part of the housing about now, Slitting the sticker with a craft knife blade before splitting the housings will make the join practically invisible if it bothers you
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/3697/1000554oj4.th.jpg (http://img248.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000554oj4.jpg)
You’ll need to remove the gear lever for this to come out, undo the grub screw and the lever should simply pull out, then the outer gear should slide out of the housing.
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/9786/1000555xc6.th.jpg (http://img443.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000555xc6.jpg)
Now strip the gearbox end……. (External cone brake models)
Remove end cover.
It may be tight and need levering / wriggling. It's holding the brake clutch and bearing so depending on which grips tighter will pull the bearing out of the cover, the bearing off the clutch or the clutch off the brake.
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/9980/picture0004li4.th.jpg (http://img248.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture0004li4.jpg)
This one pulled the cover off the bearing, leaving the brake clutch and bearing behind.
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/205/conebrakestripdown2ow1.th.jpg (http://img90.imageshack.us/my.php?image=conebrakestripdown2ow1.jpg)
If you hold the brake cone (silver bit) and turn the brake clutch (gold bit) anti-clockwise while pulling, it should come straight off.
http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/2166/picture0006gt3.th.jpg (http://img128.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture0006gt3.jpg)
You'll need three hands again for this bit;
Hold the brake (silver bit) in against the gearbox "fairly" tightly and remove the TWO circlips WHILE holding the brake clutch in with your thumb and forefinger.
(I told you you'd need three hands.......)
http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/6490/conebrakestripdown4gr0.th.jpg (http://img157.imageshack.us/my.php?image=conebrakestripdown4gr0.jpg)
Once the two clips are off, put down the circlip pliers and swap that hand with the thumb and forefinger holding the brake clutch.
Still holding the cone brake (silver bit) let the outer part of the brake clutch slide off the shaft PART WAY.
It wants to rotate clockwise, let it but count how many turns it wants to go.
If the whole thing jumps and slips don't panic.
Almost every one i've ever done seems to need 2 turns preload, it's almost universal.
At worst you'll just have to try it and see.
http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/3205/picture0008nb8.th.jpg (http://img164.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture0008nb8.jpg)
Now it's all undone, simply remove the brake bits;
Brake clutch, brake cone and clutch spring.
http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/6458/picture0008bp8.th.jpg (http://img118.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture0008bp8.jpg)
http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/3831/picture0009kr9.th.jpg (http://img128.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture0009kr9.jpg)
Take not of the clutch spring, and how the ends fit in a hole drilled in the shaft and in the brake cone respectively
http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/1516/picture0023ls5.th.jpg (http://img131.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture0023ls5.jpg)
Hmmm, well that's why the brake wasn't very good and dragged like hell, grease contamination.
http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/1002/picture0011cf1.th.jpg (http://img61.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture0011cf1.jpg)
http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/8297/picture0012fm1.th.jpg (http://img129.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture0012fm1.jpg)
If you're going further than just the brake, undo the screws and give the gear housing a good thump with a soft hammer / block of wood.
They're stuck on with sealant or a gasket.
http://img490.imageshack.us/img490/2564/picture0016gf3.th.jpg (http://img490.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture0016gf3.jpg)
Look familiar ? I told you they were basically all the same.....
Just note the orientation, direction and order of any gears and thrust washers etc.
Staying with the brake / clutch end for a minute;
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/1857/picture0017rb0.th.jpg (http://img147.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture0017rb0.jpg)
If it's clutch problems you're having, either it's awkward to get the clutch to go in or it keeps jumping out then it's probably this peg thats damaged, sometimes the coresponding detents in the drive gear.
BOTH caused by not making sure the clutch was properly engaged before winching !
http://img489.imageshack.us/img489/6442/picture0019yk2.th.jpg (http://img489.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture0019yk2.jpg)
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/852/picture0020ty6.th.jpg (http://img163.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture0020ty6.jpg)
Winch overhaul
Start with the motor I suppose;
If the motor bearings feel rough then it's best to change them for the sake of about 80p each for cheap ones and £2 for expensive ones.
The problem is getting the one off the commutator end of the motor;
You need a puller with very thin tips; (most standard pullers can reach the other one)
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/1761/1000618uq0.th.jpg (http://img258.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000618uq0.jpg)
If you're struggling then it's worth trying to service the bearing. Using a flat jewellers screwdriver or similar pry out the seal as shown;
http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/8839/1000619ee5.th.jpg (http://img338.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000619ee5.jpg)
Flush all the old grease and dirt out using electrical cleaner / motor cleaner;
http://img358.imageshack.us/img358/7972/1000621yl3.th.jpg (http://img358.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000621yl3.jpg)
At this point the bearing will feel horrible, all loose and rattly.
Using any normal universal or even Moly grease HALF, thats HALF fill the bearing with grease and work it in by rotating the bearing and moving the grease around with your finger tip.
DO NOT add any more grease, HALF FULL IS FULL !!!!!
http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/6659/1000622do0.th.jpg (http://img409.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000622do0.jpg)
Now refit the seal and see what the bearing feels like, it should have some "wobble" in it, but shouldn't feel rough.
If it is then it's going to have to be changed, without a suitable puller that means Dremel or similar fitted with a "slot cutter" or mini cutting wheel.
First cut through the outer bearing and remove the race;
http://img472.imageshack.us/img472/6765/1000623db4.th.jpg (http://img472.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000623db4.jpg)
Now, depending on access either cut diagonally accross the inner, or grind / cut a slot along the inner race.
(I cut mine the way shown below because i only had a 4 1/2" grinder handy to demonstrate this technique)
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/9352/1000625im6.th.jpg (http://img444.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000625im6.jpg)
Now repeat on the other side to remove it completely
(Usually, once the tension's off, a pair of pliers will "unscrew" the inner bearing off the armature quite easily)
http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/3558/1000626av6.th.jpg (http://img184.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000626av6.jpg)
TRY not to damage the armature shaft, but if you do catch it, then damage like this is perfectly acceptable;
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/9257/1000627gw5.th.jpg (http://img444.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000627gw5.jpg)
If the bearing or bush isn't stuck to the shaft, but it's in the housing and you can't get to the back of it (a blind housing) then this is a handy trick.
Find a piece of bar thats a good fit in the hole, but not a press fit (Sorry, but you can't use the armature), 3/4 fill the hole with grease and place the bar in the hole, surround the area with rags (for YOUR protection) and with the housing on a block of wood give the bar a couple of GOOD whacks with a decent hammer.
Tapping it won't work.
http://img472.imageshack.us/img472/9329/1000630wi4.th.jpg (http://img472.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000630wi4.jpg)
With luck and a bit of practice...........
Out it pops;
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/9463/1000631lj5.th.jpg (http://img444.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000631lj5.jpg)
This method doesn't work so well on bearings because they "leak" grease, but it does work.
Otherwise you need to heat the housing as quickly as possible from the rear with a hot air paintstripper and bang the housing down on a block of wood, with a bit of perseverence that method works too, but give up for a while if the bearing gets hot.
You need the alluminium housing to be hotter than the bearing for it to come out.
Now the commutator itself;
This one is in pretty good condition, you wouldn't normally bother doing anything with it;
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/7234/1000535kv4.th.jpg (http://img442.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000535kv4.jpg)
The reasons are;
An even colour where the brushes run. (All bars the same sort of colour, none noticably darker than others)
No deep grooving (You can just about feel grooves with a finger nail, but they don't catch)
No burring over of the copper bars (the edges are slightly ragged, but you'll know when they get burred over)
No bridging of the insulation gap (the gap between bars gets filled with molten copper / burrs or solidified carbon dust)
The idealists are going to wince at this bit, not everyone's got a lathe........
Using a piece of 400 grit "Wet 'n dry" paper (for rubbing down paintwork)
http://img483.imageshack.us/img483/2536/1000633yu7.th.jpg (http://img483.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000633yu7.jpg)
Tear a strip off and "shoeshine" the commutator by holding the ends of the paper.
Every few "shines" rotate the armature a few degree's.
The idea is to sand out the grooves / damage while keeping the commutator as round as possible, don't go mad in one spot if it shows more damage there, take the whole lot down evenly to the depth of that bad bit.
http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/6132/1000634az4.th.jpg (http://img250.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000634az4.jpg)
Once you're done sanding, you need to clean out the commutator insulation slots.
Some people say use something non conductive to avoid leaving an electrical track, others say it doesn't matter on 12 or 24v DC
Here i'm using a jewellers screwdriver again.
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/1439/1000635ot1.th.jpg (http://img444.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000635ot1.jpg)
Once the slots are clean, run something like a ball point pen down each slot to "round over" the sharp edges, don't go mad, a barely visible taper is fine and i've found the steel ball of a ball point pen does a lovely job when the slots aren't to big.
If any of the bars were noticably darker than the others or even black and there was (usually) an even number of them exacly opposite each other then don't bother with the above, some of the windings have been overheated and the armature's scrap.
If it isn't gutless now and often won't restart then it soon will be.
Do you remember stalling it ?
That's the damage you did when you stalled it :wink:
If you feel reconditioning the commutator is beyond you. call a few "motor reconditioners" or "motor rewinds" places and ask if they "skim armatures"
A typical backstreet rewinders will more than likely skim one for a tenner in the tip tin on a Saturday morning, though to be honest if it's that bad think seriously if it's worth it.
If you have access to a lathe then what's stopping you ?
Run it at a "high" speed and use a very shallow rake carbide cutter and just a drop of motor oil for the last few cuts where you'll barely even raise "dust"
Don't bother with a diamond tip, a freshly honed carbide tip will leave a "ready to run" finish compared to the diamond finish that needs breaking with 400 grit.
Mind you, this was advice from an ex-Lucas engineer :wink:
I have to admit to breaking any finish with some worn 400 grit after a glazing problem I was having when experimenting with diamond, it may work for RC racing but winch / starter motors don't seem to like it.
So much for a quick and simple guide eh ?
Only (at this rate) about 300 more pics to go…………
It’s true what they say, ask an engineer the time and he’ll tell you how to build a clock……………
Remember, this is a work in progress, any and all comments welcomed based on that.
Maybe your Discovery needs it's winch so often it should have it's own winch spares box
Or everytime you go greenlaning it seems your winch needs a hammer to get going........
Kidding folks, kidding......... (A bit :wink: )
This is the mechanical DIY winch repair thread, for the electrical part click here > http://www.plcuk.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t= ... highlight= (http://www.plcuk.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=8182&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=)
There's no mystery about fixing, servicing or even overhauling a typical winch, and with only a few differences between the cheapest and most expensive ones the same basic rules and methods apply.
Depending on make, model and country of origin there may be some small differences in how things screw together,
"Obviously" some are metric and use metric bearings / tools, others are the long forgotten Imperial or AF and these days not many people have the tools.
Don't treat this guide as step by step instructions, unless I happen to have stripped an identical winch you need to use your head, take pictures, draw diagrams but most importantly take your time !
Hopefully, as and when they crop up I'll cover each different type, there aren't that many and the main differences are in the braking systems
Anyway, here goes.........
Click on pics for full size.
First, the strip down.......
First job, check the motor.
It's where about 50% of problems are anyway. The other 49% are solenoid related unless you have an Allbright waterproof solenoid pack.
(The missing 1% are gearbox problems, usually along with a burnt out motor...........)
First, check your meter reading when it's dead shorted.
http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/1135/1000562ph9.th.jpg (http://img118.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000562ph9.jpg)
Now check between F2 and A
http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/8771/1000564xm1.th.jpg (http://img503.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000564xm1.jpg)
Between F1 and A
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/8941/1000565dg3.th.jpg (http://img504.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000565dg3.jpg)
Between F1 and F2
http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/6983/1000563wb5.th.jpg (http://img159.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000563wb5.jpg)
And finally between A and the motor body
http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/6346/1000566uz9.th.jpg (http://img251.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000566uz9.jpg)
Well, going by these readings it’s healthy as far as this test goes, Just as well since this is actually a brand new motor……….
Presuming you didn’t get these sort of readings, or you’re just servicing it then it’s time to get the spanners out.
There are a couple of different motor types, a two bolt and a two bolt plus electrical terminal.
Either way, undo the two main bolts completely, but don’t remove them and if you’ve got the third terminal, carefully undo the nut and remove the rubber/steel washer.
Be careful, you DON’T want the centre of this one to turn as you undo the nut.
Once undone (but without removing the bolts) remove the end cap.
It’s just bearing friction / silicone sealant / corrosion holding it on now.
Give it a good tap all around with a soft hammer and maybe carefully pry it apart with a screwdriver. Take your time and do it evenly or it’ll start to move then jam solid.
If this happens just tap it back on and start again.
Cheap winch motor; (Also, note crinkle cut pre-load washer location)
http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/491/1000530si2.th.jpg (http://img67.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000530si2.jpg)
Expensive winch motor. Note the sealing O-ring. (Crinkle washer not shown)
http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/2931/1000569bq4.th.jpg (http://img131.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000569bq4.jpg)
Once the end cap’s off, this is what you’ll be faced with (or very similar)
Cheap winch, no sealing O-ring obviously, just look at the water damage.
Actually, this is a motor in very good condition, this winch actually has a gearbox problem.
Usually you’ll be looking at a right mess, black gooey dust, rust and furry corrosion.
Using “motor cleaner” or “electrical contact cleaner” aerosol and a paintbrush / toothbrush clean it up until it looks like this one.
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/1310/1000531yb0.th.jpg (http://img407.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000531yb0.jpg)
Now if you’re doing a proper job, you need to remove the brush holder, easiest way is to slide the motor case off leaving the armature stuck in the winch.
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/8915/1000534jk8.th.jpg (http://img378.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000534jk8.jpg)
Then remove the brush holder from the case, typically it’s held in with 3 phillips screws from the outside of the motor and a main terminal or the end cap and a main terminal.
Either way, remove the retaining screws AND the main terminal nut then withdraw the terminal from the casing noting the order of the insulation washers.
http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/8503/1000543pj9.th.jpg (http://img127.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000543pj9.jpg)
Cheap motor shown above, note the very poor connection between terminal and brush connecting braid,
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/8061/1000545vk2.th.jpg (http://img339.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000545vk2.jpg)
It’s lead to overheating of the terminal and the failure of the internal insulation washer, this can also be caused by water.
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/9974/1000544xo0.th.jpg (http://img120.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000544xo0.jpg)
Now carefully pull back the springs and remove the brushes from their holders.
(A three handed job, pull back spring, guide the braid while getting the brush out)
Hopefully you’re now faced with this;
Note the even wear on the brush face (facing the camera) and lack of melted or chipped edges, not great but not bad either.
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/6798/1000546yu3.th.jpg (http://img69.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000546yu3.jpg)
Or in the case of an expensive motor, the brushes will be out by now, they’re removed by going in, not out.
Ever wondered where the price difference came from ?
Well, here’s part of it;
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/9492/1000568ga5.th.jpg (http://img444.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000568ga5.jpg)
If you’re doing this job properly you’ll need to remove the armature to get at the other bearing, it’s not going to just pull out….
If you’re just giving the motor a once over, skip ahead to the motor re-build section.
First remove the straining bars;
http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/463/1000538zy3.th.jpg (http://img122.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000538zy3.jpg)
The motor side drum housing should now pull off the drum.
Be careful here, you’ll probably bring the brake out with it (brake in drum models) and you’ll want to take a picture before it falls apart completely
Once off, remove the brake assembly from the armature, it should just slide off a spline. Note any adaptors, spring directions, small rollers etc
It makes life easier later
http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/9237/1000539cs0.th.jpg (http://img122.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000539cs0.jpg)
With the brake assembly removed, remove any drum seals / drum bushes, noting their order and any locating lugs in the bushes
http://img484.imageshack.us/img484/9355/1000540js6.th.jpg (http://img484.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000540js6.jpg)
http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/1865/1000558ib1.th.jpg (http://img108.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000558ib1.jpg)
To remove the armature completely you’re going to need some blocks of wood and preferably a 2lb copper faced hammer.
(In an ideal world you need packing blocks and a press, this isn’t the ideal world)
Life’s going to be difficult without at least a copper hammer, but whatever you do don’t be tempted to simply use a normal hammer on the end of the armature, even using a drift you’ll mushroom the end enough to render the armature scrap………….
More pics on their way……………..
Now strip the gearbox end……. (Brake in drum models)
Remove the gearbox endcap screws http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/426/1000548ul8.th.jpg (http://img384.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000548ul8.jpg)
and give the endplate a tap with a hammer,
http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/5740/1000549cz7.th.jpg (http://img118.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000549cz7.jpg)
Yikes, this is called emulsified grease, it’s seen a fair bit of water in its time…….
Now is a good time to steal the oldest bath towel in the house, they make great rags for grease and by the time you’re finished the evidence of theft will be unrecognisable.
Now slide the first gear cluster out, note which way around it goes.
http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/6776/1000550ar1.th.jpg (http://img338.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000550ar1.jpg)
Don’t miss this little one hiding in the middle.
http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/728/1000552he9.th.jpg (http://img79.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000552he9.jpg)
Now remove the next gear cluster, again, note its direction.
http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/2153/1000553vz4.th.jpg (http://img119.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000553vz4.jpg)
Depending on the winch, you may need to remove part of the housing about now, Slitting the sticker with a craft knife blade before splitting the housings will make the join practically invisible if it bothers you
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/3697/1000554oj4.th.jpg (http://img248.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000554oj4.jpg)
You’ll need to remove the gear lever for this to come out, undo the grub screw and the lever should simply pull out, then the outer gear should slide out of the housing.
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/9786/1000555xc6.th.jpg (http://img443.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000555xc6.jpg)
Now strip the gearbox end……. (External cone brake models)
Remove end cover.
It may be tight and need levering / wriggling. It's holding the brake clutch and bearing so depending on which grips tighter will pull the bearing out of the cover, the bearing off the clutch or the clutch off the brake.
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/9980/picture0004li4.th.jpg (http://img248.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture0004li4.jpg)
This one pulled the cover off the bearing, leaving the brake clutch and bearing behind.
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/205/conebrakestripdown2ow1.th.jpg (http://img90.imageshack.us/my.php?image=conebrakestripdown2ow1.jpg)
If you hold the brake cone (silver bit) and turn the brake clutch (gold bit) anti-clockwise while pulling, it should come straight off.
http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/2166/picture0006gt3.th.jpg (http://img128.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture0006gt3.jpg)
You'll need three hands again for this bit;
Hold the brake (silver bit) in against the gearbox "fairly" tightly and remove the TWO circlips WHILE holding the brake clutch in with your thumb and forefinger.
(I told you you'd need three hands.......)
http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/6490/conebrakestripdown4gr0.th.jpg (http://img157.imageshack.us/my.php?image=conebrakestripdown4gr0.jpg)
Once the two clips are off, put down the circlip pliers and swap that hand with the thumb and forefinger holding the brake clutch.
Still holding the cone brake (silver bit) let the outer part of the brake clutch slide off the shaft PART WAY.
It wants to rotate clockwise, let it but count how many turns it wants to go.
If the whole thing jumps and slips don't panic.
Almost every one i've ever done seems to need 2 turns preload, it's almost universal.
At worst you'll just have to try it and see.
http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/3205/picture0008nb8.th.jpg (http://img164.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture0008nb8.jpg)
Now it's all undone, simply remove the brake bits;
Brake clutch, brake cone and clutch spring.
http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/6458/picture0008bp8.th.jpg (http://img118.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture0008bp8.jpg)
http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/3831/picture0009kr9.th.jpg (http://img128.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture0009kr9.jpg)
Take not of the clutch spring, and how the ends fit in a hole drilled in the shaft and in the brake cone respectively
http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/1516/picture0023ls5.th.jpg (http://img131.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture0023ls5.jpg)
Hmmm, well that's why the brake wasn't very good and dragged like hell, grease contamination.
http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/1002/picture0011cf1.th.jpg (http://img61.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture0011cf1.jpg)
http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/8297/picture0012fm1.th.jpg (http://img129.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture0012fm1.jpg)
If you're going further than just the brake, undo the screws and give the gear housing a good thump with a soft hammer / block of wood.
They're stuck on with sealant or a gasket.
http://img490.imageshack.us/img490/2564/picture0016gf3.th.jpg (http://img490.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture0016gf3.jpg)
Look familiar ? I told you they were basically all the same.....
Just note the orientation, direction and order of any gears and thrust washers etc.
Staying with the brake / clutch end for a minute;
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/1857/picture0017rb0.th.jpg (http://img147.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture0017rb0.jpg)
If it's clutch problems you're having, either it's awkward to get the clutch to go in or it keeps jumping out then it's probably this peg thats damaged, sometimes the coresponding detents in the drive gear.
BOTH caused by not making sure the clutch was properly engaged before winching !
http://img489.imageshack.us/img489/6442/picture0019yk2.th.jpg (http://img489.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture0019yk2.jpg)
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/852/picture0020ty6.th.jpg (http://img163.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture0020ty6.jpg)
Winch overhaul
Start with the motor I suppose;
If the motor bearings feel rough then it's best to change them for the sake of about 80p each for cheap ones and £2 for expensive ones.
The problem is getting the one off the commutator end of the motor;
You need a puller with very thin tips; (most standard pullers can reach the other one)
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/1761/1000618uq0.th.jpg (http://img258.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000618uq0.jpg)
If you're struggling then it's worth trying to service the bearing. Using a flat jewellers screwdriver or similar pry out the seal as shown;
http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/8839/1000619ee5.th.jpg (http://img338.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000619ee5.jpg)
Flush all the old grease and dirt out using electrical cleaner / motor cleaner;
http://img358.imageshack.us/img358/7972/1000621yl3.th.jpg (http://img358.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000621yl3.jpg)
At this point the bearing will feel horrible, all loose and rattly.
Using any normal universal or even Moly grease HALF, thats HALF fill the bearing with grease and work it in by rotating the bearing and moving the grease around with your finger tip.
DO NOT add any more grease, HALF FULL IS FULL !!!!!
http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/6659/1000622do0.th.jpg (http://img409.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000622do0.jpg)
Now refit the seal and see what the bearing feels like, it should have some "wobble" in it, but shouldn't feel rough.
If it is then it's going to have to be changed, without a suitable puller that means Dremel or similar fitted with a "slot cutter" or mini cutting wheel.
First cut through the outer bearing and remove the race;
http://img472.imageshack.us/img472/6765/1000623db4.th.jpg (http://img472.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000623db4.jpg)
Now, depending on access either cut diagonally accross the inner, or grind / cut a slot along the inner race.
(I cut mine the way shown below because i only had a 4 1/2" grinder handy to demonstrate this technique)
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/9352/1000625im6.th.jpg (http://img444.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000625im6.jpg)
Now repeat on the other side to remove it completely
(Usually, once the tension's off, a pair of pliers will "unscrew" the inner bearing off the armature quite easily)
http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/3558/1000626av6.th.jpg (http://img184.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000626av6.jpg)
TRY not to damage the armature shaft, but if you do catch it, then damage like this is perfectly acceptable;
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/9257/1000627gw5.th.jpg (http://img444.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000627gw5.jpg)
If the bearing or bush isn't stuck to the shaft, but it's in the housing and you can't get to the back of it (a blind housing) then this is a handy trick.
Find a piece of bar thats a good fit in the hole, but not a press fit (Sorry, but you can't use the armature), 3/4 fill the hole with grease and place the bar in the hole, surround the area with rags (for YOUR protection) and with the housing on a block of wood give the bar a couple of GOOD whacks with a decent hammer.
Tapping it won't work.
http://img472.imageshack.us/img472/9329/1000630wi4.th.jpg (http://img472.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000630wi4.jpg)
With luck and a bit of practice...........
Out it pops;
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/9463/1000631lj5.th.jpg (http://img444.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000631lj5.jpg)
This method doesn't work so well on bearings because they "leak" grease, but it does work.
Otherwise you need to heat the housing as quickly as possible from the rear with a hot air paintstripper and bang the housing down on a block of wood, with a bit of perseverence that method works too, but give up for a while if the bearing gets hot.
You need the alluminium housing to be hotter than the bearing for it to come out.
Now the commutator itself;
This one is in pretty good condition, you wouldn't normally bother doing anything with it;
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/7234/1000535kv4.th.jpg (http://img442.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000535kv4.jpg)
The reasons are;
An even colour where the brushes run. (All bars the same sort of colour, none noticably darker than others)
No deep grooving (You can just about feel grooves with a finger nail, but they don't catch)
No burring over of the copper bars (the edges are slightly ragged, but you'll know when they get burred over)
No bridging of the insulation gap (the gap between bars gets filled with molten copper / burrs or solidified carbon dust)
The idealists are going to wince at this bit, not everyone's got a lathe........
Using a piece of 400 grit "Wet 'n dry" paper (for rubbing down paintwork)
http://img483.imageshack.us/img483/2536/1000633yu7.th.jpg (http://img483.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000633yu7.jpg)
Tear a strip off and "shoeshine" the commutator by holding the ends of the paper.
Every few "shines" rotate the armature a few degree's.
The idea is to sand out the grooves / damage while keeping the commutator as round as possible, don't go mad in one spot if it shows more damage there, take the whole lot down evenly to the depth of that bad bit.
http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/6132/1000634az4.th.jpg (http://img250.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000634az4.jpg)
Once you're done sanding, you need to clean out the commutator insulation slots.
Some people say use something non conductive to avoid leaving an electrical track, others say it doesn't matter on 12 or 24v DC
Here i'm using a jewellers screwdriver again.
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/1439/1000635ot1.th.jpg (http://img444.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000635ot1.jpg)
Once the slots are clean, run something like a ball point pen down each slot to "round over" the sharp edges, don't go mad, a barely visible taper is fine and i've found the steel ball of a ball point pen does a lovely job when the slots aren't to big.
If any of the bars were noticably darker than the others or even black and there was (usually) an even number of them exacly opposite each other then don't bother with the above, some of the windings have been overheated and the armature's scrap.
If it isn't gutless now and often won't restart then it soon will be.
Do you remember stalling it ?
That's the damage you did when you stalled it :wink:
If you feel reconditioning the commutator is beyond you. call a few "motor reconditioners" or "motor rewinds" places and ask if they "skim armatures"
A typical backstreet rewinders will more than likely skim one for a tenner in the tip tin on a Saturday morning, though to be honest if it's that bad think seriously if it's worth it.
If you have access to a lathe then what's stopping you ?
Run it at a "high" speed and use a very shallow rake carbide cutter and just a drop of motor oil for the last few cuts where you'll barely even raise "dust"
Don't bother with a diamond tip, a freshly honed carbide tip will leave a "ready to run" finish compared to the diamond finish that needs breaking with 400 grit.
Mind you, this was advice from an ex-Lucas engineer :wink:
I have to admit to breaking any finish with some worn 400 grit after a glazing problem I was having when experimenting with diamond, it may work for RC racing but winch / starter motors don't seem to like it.
So much for a quick and simple guide eh ?
Only (at this rate) about 300 more pics to go…………
It’s true what they say, ask an engineer the time and he’ll tell you how to build a clock……………
Remember, this is a work in progress, any and all comments welcomed based on that.